Legislature(1999 - 2000)

12/08/1999 09:00 AM Senate PRI

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
  COMMISSION ON PRIVATIZATION AND DELIVERY OF GOVERNMENT SERVICES                                                               
                         Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                      
                         December 8, 1999                                                                                       
                             9:00 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Ward, Co-Chair                                                                                                          
Representative Cowdery, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Adams                                                                                                                   
Mike Harper, President,  Kuskokwim Corporation (via  teleconference)                                                            
Tom Fink, Former Mayor of Anchorage                                                                                             
Emil Notti                                                                                                                      
Kathryn Thomas, Former Chair of Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                                                
George Wuerch, Alaska Municipal League                                                                                          
Bill Allen, Former Mayor of Fairbanks (via teleconference)                                                                      
Don Valesko, Business Manager of Public Employees Local 71                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Brice                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Discussion and adoption of recommendations.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
See Commission  on  Privatization  minutes dated  7/20/99,  8/16/99,                                                            
9/20/99, 10/28/99, 11/4/99,  11/10/99, 11/18/99, 11/24/99, 11/30/99,                                                            
12/1/99 and 12/7/99.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-24, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  called the Commission  on Privatization and  Delivery                                                            
of  Government Services  meeting  to  order at  9:15  a.m.   Members                                                            
present at the  call to order were Representative  Cowdery, Senators                                                            
Ward and Adams,  and Commissioners Fink, Notti, Valesko  and Thomas.                                                            
CO-CHAIR WARD announced  that Commissioner Wuerch will be 40 minutes                                                            
late,  Commissioner  Allen  should  be  arriving  at  the  Fairbanks                                                            
Legislative  Information  Office  in ten  minutes  and Commissioner                                                             
Harper  will be  joining the  committee via  phone from  Aniak.   He                                                            
noted  that Representative  Brice  will not  be present  at  today's                                                            
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
NEW BUSINESS                                                                                                                  
FORMER  GOVERNOR  BILL SHEFFIELD,  Chief  Executive  Officer of  the                                                            
Alaska Railroad  Corporation (ARRC), made the following  comments to                                                            
the Commission.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ARRC provides  a good example of how state entities  that operate as                                                            
private  businesses  can save  the  state money.   ARRC  is  already                                                            
privatized  with state ownership of  all shares of the corporation.                                                             
ARRC  is a self  sustaining,  self performing  asset  that does  not                                                            
require ongoing operation  or capital state subsidies other than the                                                            
$22.7 million  needed for its purchase and the $10  million used for                                                            
start-up  money.  ARRC  employees  do not participate  in the  state                                                            
retirement  and  benefits  system  and they  are  not on  the  state                                                            
payroll.   In this  best case scenario,  the state  owns a  valuable                                                            
transportation  corridor  equaling 36,000  acres of  land; about  60                                                            
acres per  rail mile.  Alaska  does not have  an excess of  railroad                                                            
land;  when  a railroad was built  across the western United  States                                                            
many years  ago, states received  about 7,000  acres per rail  mile.                                                            
ARRC is the only full-service  railroad in the nation operating both                                                            
freight and passenger services.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Under state ownership,  the state has the ability to expand the rail                                                            
line  system  with   federal  government  assistance   for  resource                                                            
development.   Under private  ownership, these  grants would  not be                                                            
available for  capital programs and  upgrades.  Privatization  would                                                            
jeopardize  ARRC's ability  to  use federal  grant money  and,  to a                                                            
certain  extent, money  would  have to  be returned  to the  federal                                                            
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The  subcommittee's  report  on privatizing   ARRC begs  answers  to                                                            
several  questions.  Why sell  a performing  asset  in an  important                                                            
transportation  corridor  and, in  the process,  endanger  important                                                            
user  groups and  businesses  that  serve  Alaskans?   Putting  ARRC                                                            
through  the process  of seeking  potential buyers  will bring  much                                                            
uncertainty  to its  operations and  capital  developments and  will                                                            
inhibit   business.   It  is better  to have employees  worry  about                                                            
serving customers than  losing their jobs.  If ARRC customers become                                                            
concerned about  its longevity, they will question  the stability of                                                            
their long  term contracts.  They  may become less likely  to invest                                                            
capital to  expand their  operations if they  cannot depend  on ARRC                                                            
for reliable  transportation.   According to  Jeff Cook of  Williams                                                            
Energy, "The uncertainty  regarding ownership of the Alaska Railroad                                                            
could have been a real  factor in our decision to invest $60 million                                                            
for our refinery expansion  and the discussions today certainly have                                                            
an impact on our future decisions."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  repeated that federal grants will become  jeopardized                                                            
and non-existent.   An RFP process  will cost ARRC between  $500,000                                                            
to $1 million to implement,  plus employee time.  ARRC does not have                                                            
a large staff  available to solicit  proposals for one year,  as the                                                            
subcommittee recommended it do.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
No one has  really defined the intent  behind privatization  of ARRC                                                            
and the consequences  of private ownership.  Public  support to keep                                                            
ARRC as a state asset is  high.  Its sale could result in non-Alaska                                                            
control of  a valuable transportation  corridor.  Stipulations  will                                                            
have to  be placed  on companies  bidding for  ARRC.  He  questioned                                                            
whether  potential buyers  will be  required  to continue  passenger                                                            
service on  the Hurricane  Turn whistle stop  or shuttle service  to                                                            
Whittier and what  the state will gain or lose by  selling ARRC.  He                                                            
pointed  out the subcommittee  never  looked at  those questions  to                                                            
determine  whether  selling ARRC  is  in the  best interest  of  all                                                            
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.   SHEFFIELD   offered   to   answer   questions   and   informed                                                            
Commissioners   that  Mr.  Binkley   was  also  present   to  answer                                                            
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  commented that Mr. Sheffield's statement  - to get                                                            
the railroad built  through the West, a lot of land  went along with                                                            
it - is  a true statement  but that was then  and not now.   Most of                                                            
the railroad sales that  have taken place in recent years are bought                                                            
for the  transportation deeds.   It is his  understanding that  when                                                            
Mr. Denny Washington  was interested in buying the  Alaska Railroad,                                                            
he  was not  interested  in  the land.    He  pointed out  that  the                                                            
subcommittee  recommended   requesting  proposals   for  the  Alaska                                                            
Railroad  to  see  if  anyone  is  interested  in  buying  it.    He                                                            
emphasized  the  railroad  will not  shut  down and  employees  will                                                            
probably  retain their  jobs  with a new  employer,  plus the  state                                                            
could invest the money from the sale in the Permanent Fund.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.   JOHNE   BINKLEY,   Alaska  Railroad   Corporation,    informed                                                            
Commissioners that an issue  that came to light in a discussion with                                                            
Representative  James yesterday and with Senator Murkowski  is their                                                            
joint  effort  to  expand  the Alaska  Railroad  as  far  East  from                                                            
existing  lines as Fairbanks,  North  Pole, and  Eielsen to link  up                                                            
with the Canadian  railway system.  Such an expansion  would provide                                                            
access  to  the  lower  48  states.    Both  Senator  Murkowski  and                                                            
Representative  James are  concerned that  legislative action  could                                                            
jeopardize their ability  to secure funds from Congress to implement                                                            
this plan.  He  noted that the Alaska Railroad corridor  between the                                                            
ice-free tidewater  ports of Seward and Whittier,  and north through                                                            
municipalities,  Native corporation lands, state and  national parks                                                            
and private lands is a  unique and valuable transportation corridor.                                                            
 He stated  that selling that transportation  corridor is  analogous                                                            
to selling the Yukon River.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD asked for  permission to respond to Co-Chair Cowdery's                                                            
remark.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD said yes,  but clarified that any further dialog about                                                            
the ARRC would be among Commission members.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  told Co-Chair  Cowdery  that ARRC is  doing a  lot of                                                            
work to improve  the asset of the railroad, and it  has many capital                                                            
improvements  planned  over the  next  three to  four  years.   ARRC                                                            
cannot continue  to work  on those improvements  if the Legislature                                                             
intends  to  privatize  it.    Many  resolutions  in  opposition  to                                                            
privatizing  ARRC have  been passed  around the  state, including  a                                                            
resolution  passed three  days ago  by the Alaska  State Chamber  of                                                            
Commerce.   Changes  to ARRC will  affect tourism,  coal  shipments,                                                            
fuel supply  delivery, gravel hauls,  passengers and other  freight.                                                            
50 percent  of ARRC's net  profit is derived  from real estate  that                                                            
ARRC has  leased.  No railroad  will survive  and pay taxes  without                                                            
land to supplement  its diet, and no other railroad  will be able to                                                            
provide the service that ARRC provides to Alaskans now.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD thanked  Mr. Sheffield  and noted  that Commissioner                                                             
Harper   is  participating   via  teleconference   from  Aniak   and                                                            
Commissioner   Allen  is  participating   via  teleconference   from                                                            
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER THOMAS clarified  that the only resolution discussed by                                                            
the Alaska  State Chamber  of Commerce  was whether  ARRC should  be                                                            
placed under the  Executive Branch.  Privatization  of ARRC is still                                                            
fully covered as a position  of the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                                            
under  its  blanket   resolution  that  supports  viewing   ways  to                                                            
privatize delivery of government services.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD said he was not aware of that.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  thanked Mr.  Sheffield  and  Mr. Binkley  for  their                                                            
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MINUTES                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  announced that no previous minutes  are available for                                                            
approval at this time but  they will be available at the December 13                                                            
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
OLD BUSINESS                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI  informed commission  members that the University  of                                                            
Alaska response  to Items I through X of the report  outline has not                                                            
been received yet.                                                                                                              
NEW BUSINESS                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY   asked  Commissioner  Thomas   to  speak  to  the                                                            
legislative proposal she brought forward the previous day.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS said the recommendation  that she put  together                                                            
and placed  before the commission  was intended to be a broad-based                                                             
recommendation  to encompass several  problems that she encountered                                                             
with  the subcommittees  when  developing  recommendations  for  the                                                            
departments.     She  found  that   the  subcommittees  lacked   the                                                            
management tools to be  able to identify the costs of activities and                                                            
to identify  the management  cost  of performing  activities.   As a                                                            
result, she reviewed  reports of several privatization  efforts that                                                            
have come to  the Alaska State Chamber  of Commerce.  She  drafted a                                                            
recommendation from the  Commission to the Legislature for action to                                                            
enable the  commission to start compiling  the information  it needs                                                            
to make  evaluations in  the future,  and to provide  for a  body to                                                            
make  recommendations   and  decisions  for  the  commission.    She                                                            
believes  this recommendation  will provide  an opportunity  for the                                                            
commission  to put  state budgets  in a  format that  will not  only                                                            
provide  the   cost  of  an  activity   but  will  also   allow  for                                                            
accountability   to  the  citizens  of  Alaska.    Another   concern                                                            
expressed  by the subcommittees  was  the way some  costs are  being                                                            
attributed  to  different  functions.     The  establishment  of  an                                                            
independent audit committee  to respond to a Commission charged with                                                            
reviewing the  costs of every government activity  and service would                                                            
probably fill  the gap and ensure that costs are properly  accounted                                                            
for.  She pointed out that  although the document she distributed to                                                            
Commissioners  is three pages long, some of the text  consists of an                                                            
explanation  of why these  separate components  are so important  to                                                            
the Commission  in establishing the costs of government.   She asked                                                            
Commissioners  to consider  supporting the  formation of an  Alaskan                                                            
Operational Government Commission.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD asked  Commissioners  Harper  and Allen  if they  had                                                            
copies   of  Commissioner    Thomas'  proposal.      Both   answered                                                            
affirmatively.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  maintained that  over 300 people have volunteered                                                             
in this effort,  over 150 subcommittee meetings have  been held, and                                                            
a tremendous  amount  of work  has been  involved.   He thought  the                                                            
creation of  a commission to carry  this effort forward,  similar to                                                            
commissions in Minnesota  and Arkansas, is in order.  He said he has                                                            
had no thoughts  on the make-up of such a commission  at this point.                                                            
 CO-CHAIR COWDERY  acknowledged that the state is  looking at a $500                                                            
million  budget shortfall,  and that  Alaska needs  to look at  what                                                            
services  can be  eliminated  or improved.    He stated  his  strong                                                            
support for Commissioner Thomas' proposal.                                                                                      
COMMISSIONER FINK said,  in his opinion, the legislative proposal is                                                            
too long  and he thinks it  should be added  to the appendix  of the                                                            
executive summary  in "bullet" form.  He cautioned  that people will                                                            
not read a long document.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER THOMAS  shortened the proposal to ask  Commissioners to                                                            
draft a proposal  to the Legislature,  recommending it establish  by                                                            
statute an  Alaska Operational Government  Commission authorized  to                                                            
recommend,  audit  and  update  an  operational  plan  to:  identify                                                            
service  costs;  establish   a cost-based   accounting  system  -  a                                                            
"popular" budget; create  an independent government audit committee;                                                            
and hire staff.  She also  moved that the Commission ask that all of                                                            
its  subcommittee  reports  be reviewed  by  the new  commission  to                                                            
provide it with a mechanism to use to go forward.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI repeated the motion for Commissioners.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  moved to adopt the proposal.  COMMISSIONER  THOMAS                                                            
seconded the motion.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN  moved to amend the motion to insert,  before the                                                            
word "audit," the words "performance and financial."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There  being no objection  to  Commissioner Allen's  amendment,  CO-                                                            
CHAIR WARD announced the motion carried.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO moved  to amend  the legislative  proposal  to                                                            
request  that funding  be included  so that the  new commission  can                                                            
operate properly.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  objected   for  the  reason  that  he  believes  the                                                            
Legislature  has  the  ability  to appropriate  money  once  it  has                                                            
determined  the criteria,  and that  the funding  issue should  be a                                                            
legislative prerogative.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  also objected, and  said he does not believe  that                                                            
future legislatures can be bound to fund the commission.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  said he is not proposing that  this Commission                                                            
bind another  legislature; he is proposing  that if this  Commission                                                            
is going  to ask the  legislature  to enact a  statute, it also  ask                                                            
that the appropriate  funds be provided  by the legislature  so that                                                            
it can perform  the job it was asked to do.  He pointed  out that if                                                            
the Commission  recommends  to the legislature  that it enact  a law                                                            
but says  that no  cost is  attached, it  will be  creating a  paper                                                            
tiger.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   THOMAS   indicated  that   she   has  reviewed   many                                                            
privatization  reports  from around the country, and in all fairness                                                            
to  Commissioner  Valesko's  membership,  part  of  her  concern  is                                                            
providing an activity-based  cost system so that employees  can step                                                            
to  the  plate  and manage  competition   in a  fair  manner.    She                                                            
cautioned  that   no  commission  will  ever  know   what  level  of                                                            
management  is being  charged  to each  activity  unless the  budget                                                            
system is revised.  She pointed out that:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     One thing  that became very evident  as I researched  this over                                                            
     the  last few months  is that,  in most cases,  by starting  to                                                            
     identify   the  costs   and  re-evaluating   where   management                                                            
     positions  and money is  going to be spent  - or being  spent -                                                            
     that those savings  started helping fund efforts like this.  So                                                            
     I can  understand your concern  but I think that we  would find                                                            
     within  a  very short  time  we  would have  a  more  extensive                                                            
     management  tool  to  handle our  budget  and to  identify  our                                                            
     costs, and this is  the only way I know that your employees are                                                            
     going  to  have  --  or  your members  are  going  to  have  an                                                            
     opportunity to participate very fully in the process.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK contended  that the proposal is too elaborate.  He                                                            
noted  he  could  buy  the  idea  of  a continuing   commission  for                                                            
privatization  and he believes the  proposal would work for  private                                                            
industry but, because it  involves government, it will just set up a                                                            
new bureaucracy.   He cautioned that  governments and bureaucracies                                                             
grow and protect themselves  and each other.  He said he prefers the                                                            
formation of a short term  commission next year or would support the                                                            
continuation  of the  existing  commission,  but he  does not  favor                                                            
establishing a permanent commission.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  ALLEN commended  Commissioner Thomas  on the  work she                                                            
has done  and stated  he believes  she is  on the  right track.   He                                                            
suggested that  CO-CHAIR WARD appoint  three to five people  to look                                                            
at this proposal in more depth.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD interjected  to clarify that an amendment to include a                                                            
funding mechanism in the proposal is on the table at this time.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  HARPER  also  commended Commissioner  Thomas  for  her                                                            
efforts but stated he believes  recommending the creation of another                                                            
bureaucracy is not the  right message to send.  He was excited about                                                            
participating on the Commission  because he saw it as an opportunity                                                            
for private  citizens to volunteer  to give their best shot  at this                                                            
effort and then to leave.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY stated  his support  for the  continuation of  the                                                            
Commission.   He pointed out that  other states have used  a similar                                                            
approach  and that their  commissions are  operating in their  fifth                                                            
and sixth years.   He added that when the legislation  to create the                                                            
Commission  on Privatization was enacted,  the legislature  realized                                                            
that the  Commission would  not have  enough time  to do all  of the                                                            
work  that  it was  charged  with.    He repeated  his  support  for                                                            
continuing the  existence of the Commission and, regarding  funding,                                                            
he does not  feel it is fair to his  or Co-Chair Ward's staff  to be                                                            
expected to do all of the work.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO  clarified  that his  amendment  was that  the                                                            
Commission  recommend  that  a request  for  the proper  funding  be                                                            
submitted to the legislature.   He maintained that he speaks for all                                                            
members of the AFL-CIO and said:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     In  general   I  believe,  when   you  put  it  out   there  to                                                            
     competition,  you  give   my  -- if  you want  to  speak to  my                                                            
     members  a chance to compete,  we've been there before.   We've                                                            
     gone  to competition on  the Haul Road  and came in $2  million                                                            
     cheaper  than  the  private sector  on  a  $7 million  bid  for                                                            
     maintaining  the Haul  Road.  I  know we can  compete.   I know                                                            
     what my members  can do.  They are experienced.   They have the                                                            
     ability  out there  to do it so  when we looked  at it  in that                                                            
     context,  as far as what this committee is recommending,  it is                                                            
     recommending that  we go forward with the Commission, I believe                                                            
     we've  got to  be  up front  and also  say recommend  that  the                                                            
     legislature appropriate the necessary money to do so.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD informed  Commissioners a motion to amend the proposal                                                            
is before the  Commission.  He announced  the Commission  would take                                                            
an at-ease for ten minutes to work on revised language.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  said he believes, from listening to  comments made by                                                            
Commissioners,  the original motion  will fail.  He maintained  that                                                            
the  legislature   acts   as  the  Alaska   Operational   Governance                                                            
Commission.   He  pointed  out that  legislative  finance  committee                                                            
members take care of the  budget and that a legislative audit agency                                                            
already  exists.  He  stated the  Commission is  going in the  wrong                                                            
direction.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD said he does  not disagree with Senator Adams that the                                                            
original  motion will fail  as is which is  the reason Commissioner                                                             
Thomas asked for a ten minute recess.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The Commission took an at-ease.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  called  the  Commission  back  to  order  and  noted                                                            
Commissioners Allen and Harper were on-line.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO withdrew his  amendment to the recommendation                                                             
put forth by Commissioner Thomas.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  withdrew his motion to adopt Commissioner  Thomas'                                                            
recommendation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS moved  to adopt a  revised recommendation  that                                                            
reads:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The  legislature  shall  consider  an  ongoing  effort  on  the                                                            
     delivery  of government  services  in the  most cost  effective                                                            
     manner with consideration  for providing the public and private                                                            
     sectors   with  a  means   to  participate   and  provide   the                                                            
     information in her previous recommendation in the appendix.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded the motion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK asked that the motion be re-read.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER THOMAS read:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The Legislature  consider an ongoing effort on  the delivery of                                                            
     government  services in the most  effective and cost  efficient                                                            
     manner with consideration  for providing the public and private                                                            
     sectors with a method  to have available the information in the                                                            
     appendix.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  expressed concern about selling this  proposal to the                                                            
legislature.   He suggested  extending the  termination date  of the                                                            
existing  Commission  for three  months  so that  Commissioners  can                                                            
participate in  Juneau and determine whether the establishment  of a                                                            
new Commission is a viable option.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD asked if  Senator Adams is proposing his suggestion as                                                            
an amendment.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS said  he is  not, he  just  wanted to  see how  other                                                            
Commissioners feel about the idea.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY expressed  support for  Senator Adams'  suggestion                                                            
because he  believes the  most effective sales  people of this  idea                                                            
are the current Commissioners.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS  said  his  thought  is  that  if  Commissioners  are                                                            
concerned  about  an extension,  he  would like  to  see them  lobby                                                            
legislators  for its continuation.   He pointed  out the  Commission                                                            
expires at the end of December.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-24, SIDE B                                                                                                              
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS  remarked  that  she does  not  want  to see  a                                                            
disjointed effort made  toward the privatization effort every one or                                                            
two years.  She does not  believe that will serve the state well and                                                            
she  would like  to  see something  that  will  transcend  different                                                            
election  cycles  so  that the  Commission  can  provide  some  good                                                            
information.   She noted that she  does not have a personal  problem                                                            
with continuing  the current  Commission but  she would hate  to see                                                            
the current  effort come to  a screeching halt  with no way  for the                                                            
effort to go forward,  and then have the effort move  in a different                                                            
direction at a later time.   She pointed out the State of Alaska has                                                            
seen many  such efforts that  did not tie  together and resulted  in                                                            
volumes of material  being printed and sitting idle  on bookshelves.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD asserted that  Commissioner  Thomas' motion  will put                                                            
those   concerns   squarely   before   the   legislature   for   its                                                            
consideration.   He pointed out that  the presiding officers  of the                                                            
legislature  can extend  the existing  Commission  on January  10 if                                                            
they choose to go that route.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY said he  understood the  intent of Senator  Adams'                                                            
suggestion to  be to allow the current Commissioners  to participate                                                            
in Juneau with  their titles of "commissioner" rather  than to allow                                                            
the Commission to carry on as it has been.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD replied  that  he concurs  with  that  effort and  he                                                            
expects  many subcommittee  members  will participate  in Juneau  as                                                            
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  ALLEN felt Commissioners  were discussing two  issues:                                                            
continuance  and   procedure.    He  thought  Commissioner   Thomas'                                                            
recommendation  "hits the  target" regarding  procedure.  He  agreed                                                            
that if a different  group picks up where this Commission  left off,                                                            
at least  a procedure  will have  been developed  for that group  to                                                            
follow.    He suggested  that  both  continuance  and  procedure  be                                                            
addressed in the executive report.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO asked that the motion be reread.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS  contended that  Senator Adams'  suggestion  to                                                            
extend the  Commission for three months  would give members  time to                                                            
deliberate future efforts.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS said  Commissioners  are very  close  to making  that                                                            
motion and  he asked that  Commissioner Thomas'  motion be  read one                                                            
more time.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE DEAL, staff to Co-Chair Cowdery, read:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     That the  legislature consider ongoing efforts  to the delivery                                                            
      of  government  services   in  the  most  effective  and  cost                                                            
     efficient  manner with consideration  for providing  the public                                                            
     and  private   citizens  with   a  manner  to  have   available                                                            
     information in the appendix.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD asked if there  is objection  to the adoption  of the                                                            
motion.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO said  amendments may be forthcoming because the                                                            
motion brings  the entire appendix into the record  and there may be                                                            
 parts of the  appendix that all Commissioners  do not agree  should                                                            
be included.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK noted he plans  to move one part of the  appendix                                                            
that Commissioner Valesko does not like.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS suggested  that Commissioners  accept the motion  and                                                            
change the wording  of the final report at a later  date if problems                                                            
occur.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  stated the Commission has a conceptual  motion before                                                            
it and asked if any Commissioner objects to its adoption.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  said the problem might be solved  if Commissioner                                                            
Thomas'  motion  included   the  words  "along  the  lines"  of  the                                                            
appendix.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD agreed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  noted the part that is most  bothersome to him                                                            
is the  section  that recommends  opening  up the  Public  Employees                                                            
Relations Act (PERA).   He expressed concern that by agreeing to the                                                            
motion  on  the   table  he  will  later  have  to   get  the  other                                                            
Commissioners to agree to remove that language.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK  thought  Commissioner   Thomas  was  asking  for                                                            
direction  for the  kind  of information  she  wants and  he has  no                                                            
problem with that.  He  said he would not think Commissioner Valesko                                                            
would either, although he might object to part of it.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  clarified that he is concerned  that by voting                                                            
in favor of the  motion he will be voting to amend  PERA and, if so,                                                            
he will have to vote against it.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD said  no, Commissioner  Valesko  would  be voting  to                                                            
allow Commissioner  Thomas' motion to be considered.   CO-CHAIR WARD                                                            
announced  that with  no objection,  the motion  carried.   CO-CHAIR                                                            
WARD noted the motion would be addressed at the next meeting.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  moved to recommend that the legislature  issue an RFP                                                            
for  the purchase  and  operation  of  the ARRC.    AN UNIDENTIFIED                                                             
COMMISSIONER seconded the motion for the purpose of discussion.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS  advised   that  he  made  the  motion  so  that  the                                                            
Commission can get the  issue on or off of the table.  He noted that                                                            
he is  opposed  to the  sale of  ARRC because  he believes  it  is a                                                            
viable  function   of  Alaska's  development   and  because   he  is                                                            
interested  in  the  Canadian  link and  the  Seward  and  Anchorage                                                            
airport expansion.   He also noted  ARRC is able to receive  federal                                                            
funds.   SENATOR ADAMS commented  that the  Alaska State Chamber  of                                                            
Commerce  has  opposed  any  legislative  action  or action  by  the                                                            
Administration  that would diminish  the ARRC's ability to  continue                                                            
operating in its current way.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  said he favors the Commission going  on record in                                                            
support of the sale of  ARRC.  He thought it will take several years                                                            
to sell ARRC  and that the resolution  produced by the subcommittee                                                             
was very  good.   He asked  if Senator  Adams'  motion includes  the                                                            
subcommittee's entire proposal of four recommendations.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS answered yes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK stated he does not object to the motion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH  spoke  in opposition  to  the motion  for  the                                                            
reason that, for  the short term, Alaska's congressional  delegation                                                            
will be  able to  secure substantial  federal funds  for ARRC  which                                                            
would be lost if ARRC were  privately owned.  In addition, Anchorage                                                            
is on the threshold  of seeing major improvements  that will benefit                                                            
all Alaskans, such as the airport and Ship Creek development.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY  asked if,  when  the state  bought  ARRC, it  was                                                            
supposed to consider it for privatization every five years.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH said it was originally.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  asked if the motion will recommend  that an RFP be                                                            
issued to establish  a value of ARRC.   He repeated that  if ARRC is                                                            
eventually  sold, he  will be  a strong  proponent  of putting  that                                                            
money into the Permanent Fund.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK  stated,  in response  to  Commissioner  Wuerch's                                                            
comment, that  the subcommittee's  recommendation will take  several                                                            
years to implement.  For  example, the land ARRC should give up will                                                            
have  to be  determined  before  it is  sold.   He pointed  out  the                                                            
subcommittee  approached Mr.  Washington, a  prospective buyer,  who                                                            
said he did  not want to discuss the  sale until a decision  to sell                                                            
is made.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO said  he believes the motion contains the first                                                            
recommendation of the ARRC  subcommittee, and not recommendations 2,                                                            
3, and 4.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  clarified   that  Senator  Adams  wanted   all  four                                                            
recommendations on the table.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  said he included all four recommendations  because he                                                            
does not want to take a piecemeal approach.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK repeated  that  if the  motion is  passed by  the                                                            
Commission and  the legislature acts on it in January,  it will take                                                            
at least two years to sell any land.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS informed Commission  members that she  attended                                                            
all meetings of  the ARRC subcommittee and she brought  two items to                                                            
Commissioners'  attention.   The subcommittee  spent  a lot of  time                                                            
considering  how much  state  liability is  involved  with ARRC  and                                                            
whether ARRC assets are  being maximized.  The issue of selling land                                                            
to the leaseholders  was also given a fair amount  of consideration.                                                            
 She  asked  Commissioner  Wuerch  to  comment  on  the  reason  the                                                            
Municipality  of Anchorage would not  want that land as part  of its                                                            
tax  base.   She  also  asked Senator  Adams  to  consider  removing                                                            
recommendation  4, regarding  the vegetation  control program,  from                                                            
his  motion  because   she  believes  that  issue   is  of  separate                                                            
importance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  maintained that he presented his motion  as a package                                                            
and that Commissioner Thomas  could make a separate motion regarding                                                            
recommendation 4 if she wished to do so.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  NOTTI spoke  in opposition  to the  motion because  he                                                            
believes in the importance  of extending the railroad into Canada as                                                            
the residents  of the Yukon River need freight rate  reductions.  He                                                            
noted  he would  hate  to see  federal  money  get "stopped  up"  by                                                            
uncertainty.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH  explained, in response to Commissioner  Thomas'                                                            
question, that  the Municipality of Anchorage has  struggled for the                                                            
past   15  years   to  attract   private  sector   sponsorship   for                                                            
developments  in the Ship Creek area  and it would be beneficial  to                                                            
have some investment  there that would  provide a tax base.   He has                                                            
come to the  conclusion it is not  possible at this time.   He would                                                            
like to see development  happen under public ownership  of ARRC and,                                                            
at a future  date, sell the improved  property to provide  for a tax                                                            
base.  Second,  he has been frustrated that herbicides  are not used                                                            
in this state,  and in his travels  around this country and  others,                                                            
he believes  ARRC  is grossly  underestimating  the  true impact  of                                                            
contaminated ballast to  Alaska's railroad system.  He thinks ARRC's                                                            
estimate of  the cost of not using  herbicides is very conservative                                                             
but he felt the herbicide issue is a legislative one.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  ALLEN stated  this issue is important  to the  city of                                                            
Fairbanks and  that he has taken a  "hands off" approach  toward the                                                            
issue of privatizing ARRC  over the years.  He indicated he plans to                                                            
oppose  the motion  for  several reasons.    Fishing  for values  in                                                            
determining what  an asset is worth is an expensive  ordeal for both                                                            
the  seller  and potential   buyers, especially   when there  is  no                                                            
definite plan  to liquidate the asset.  In addition,  he agrees with                                                            
Mr. Sheffield that it is  terribly demoralizing to ARRC employees to                                                            
have this  question  continue to surface  every  year.  He  repeated                                                            
that the railroad  is very important to Fairbanks.   Fairbanks has a                                                            
$10 to $15 billion  project on the horizon with the  construction of                                                            
the  national  missile defense  system,  and  the extension  of  the                                                            
railroad from Ft. Greeley  to Eielson Air Force Base is important to                                                            
that project.  He agreed  with Commissioner Notti that Alaskans need                                                            
more options for  freight delivery, most certainly  to the Interior.                                                            
 An  infrastructure  is  necessary  for  resource   development  and                                                            
getting products to market  has hamstrung that development.  He felt                                                            
ARRC  is analogous  to the  Alaska Marine  Highway  System which  he                                                            
believes  should  be  kept in  state  ownership.    He respectfully                                                             
requested Commissioners to oppose the motion.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARPER called for the question.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD asked Co-Chair Cowdery to make one last comment.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  said the comments  made imply that if ARRC  was to                                                            
be sold, it would be torn  up and cease to exist as a railroad which                                                            
he does  not believe  would be  the case.   He noted  that any  sale                                                            
contract could  require that ARRC employees be retained  or be given                                                            
the first right  of refusal.  He added that the RFP  could stipulate                                                            
that if the  purchaser ceases operations,  ownership will  revert to                                                            
the  state.   He repeated  that  approval of  the  motion will  only                                                            
recommend  to  the  legislature   that  it  approve  a  request  for                                                            
proposals.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  moved to amend the motion to replace  the language to                                                            
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The Privatization Task Force recommends to the Legislature                                                                 
     that it consider placing the Alaska Railroad under the                                                                     
     Executive Budget Act.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK  asked Co-Chair  Ward  to consider  putting  that                                                            
language  forward  as a  separate motion  as  he will  have to  vote                                                            
against it but would have supported the original motion.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  explained that he was attempting to  find some common                                                            
ground.   He remarked  that  rather than  recommend  that an RFP  be                                                            
issued, he  thinks one year should  be spent collecting information                                                             
to determine whether or not ARRC should be sold.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded the motion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS commented  that he believes ARRC is working well under                                                            
its current system.   He would have agreed with its  sale five years                                                            
ago, but now sees it as a viable engine of the state.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  clarified that his amendment replaces  Senator Adams'                                                            
language to adopt  the subcommittee's four recommendations  with the                                                            
following language:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The Privatization Commission recommends to the legislature                                                                 
     that it consider placing the Alaska Railroad Corporation under                                                             
     the Executive Budget Act.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The motion  failed with  Co-Chair Ward and  Commissioners Notti  and                                                            
Thomas   voting  "yea,"   and  Senator   Adams,  Co-Chair   Cowdery,                                                            
Commissioners Allen, Fink,  Harper, Valesko and Wuerch voting "nay."                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD asked Senator Adams to repeat his motion.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS clarified  that his  motion is  that the legislature                                                             
shall  issue an  RFP for  the  purchase or  operating  lease of  the                                                            
Alaska  Railroad  and  the  other  three   items  contained  in  the                                                            
subcommittee's report pertaining  to the ARRC. [Those items are:  2)                                                            
the ARRC shall  offer to sell land presently leased  to leaseholders                                                            
to the leaseholders  for fair market value; 3) the  ARRC shall offer                                                            
to sell  for fair  market value  all land that  is non-essential  to                                                            
railroad operations  and is non-revenue generating;  and 4) the ARRC                                                            
shall  implement  a vegetation  control  program  including  use  of                                                            
herbicides.]                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The motion failed with  Co-Chairs Ward and Cowdery and Commissioners                                                            
Fink  and Thomas  voting  "yea," and  Senator  Adams, Commissioners                                                             
Allen, Harper, Notti, Valesko and Wuerch voting "nay."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER THOMAS  asked Commissioners to consider  adopting, as a                                                            
recommendation,  the ARRC's fourth  recommendation which  read, "The                                                            
Alaska  Railroad  shall  implement  a  vegetation   control  program                                                            
including use  of herbicides."  COMMISSIONER  THOMAS explained  that                                                            
this  recommendation   was   very  important   to  members   of  the                                                            
subcommittee.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER seconded the motion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS objected.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  ALLEN asked that ARRC  staff educate Commissioners  on                                                            
this issue as he does not  feel knowledgeable enough to cast a vote.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS  explained  the subcommittee  felt  ARRC  needs                                                            
public support  and the support of the Commission  to use herbicides                                                            
to control vegetation around the railbed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD noted ARRC supports the herbicide recommendation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO asked  that ARRC officials verify their support                                                            
of this recommendation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  said ARRC representatives expressed  their support at                                                            
the subcommittee level.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARPER called for the question.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The   motion  carried   with   Co-Chairs   Ward  and   Cowdery   and                                                            
Commissioners  Allen,  Fink,  Harper, Notti,  Thomas,  Valesko,  and                                                            
Wuerch voting "yea," and Senator Adams voting "nay."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY moved  to place  the Alaska  Railroad Corporation                                                             
under the Executive Budget Act.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD noted that motion was previously defeated.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   COWDERY  said   he  thought   Commissioners  could   make                                                            
individual recommendations,  and he thought the previous  motion was                                                            
a group recommendation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH  asked for a ruling of the Chair.   He noted the                                                            
previous motion  was supposed to have been substantive  so by voting                                                            
against substitution, "we  don't necessarily reach the conclusion we                                                            
voted against  the idea."  He said he would prefer  to bring it back                                                            
to the table as a stand-alone motion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  ruled that  the  motion  can  be placed  before  the                                                            
Commission again.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  maintained that  placing ARRC under the  Executive                                                            
Budget Act  will reduce  frustrations because  ARRC's books  will be                                                            
available for  review which will allow verification  of ARRC's plans                                                            
of future  projects. He  noted the Department  of Transportation  is                                                            
under  the Executive  Budget  Act and  was able  to  plan ahead  and                                                            
secure funding  for the airport expansion.   He maintained  there is                                                            
no reason  the  legislature should  not be  able to  open up  ARRC's                                                            
books to see,  in detail, exactly where the money  goes from the top                                                            
executive level  to the lowest paid employees.  He  pointed out that                                                            
financial statements  do not show that kind of detailed  information                                                            
so he believes  putting ARRC  under the Executive  Budget Act  would                                                            
help it.  He said he cannot see any downside to such a change.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH  asked   that  the  Commission  be  given  some                                                            
background  information on  how the other  state-owned corporations                                                             
operate, such  as the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation  (AHFC) and                                                            
the Alaska Industrial Development  and Export Authority (AIDEA), and                                                            
whether ARRC's operations differ.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  asked Senator Adams  if AHFC and AIDEA  fall under                                                            
the Executive Budget Act.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS reminded  Co-Chair Ward that a motion is on the table.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  asked for a roll call vote.  The motion  carried with                                                            
 Commissioners  Fink, Notti, Thomas, Wuerch, and Co-Chairs  Ward and                                                            
Cowdery voting "yea,"   and Commissioners Allen, Harper, Valesko and                                                            
Senator Adams voting "nay."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  asked Commissioners if they have any  recommendations                                                            
they would like the full Commission to consider.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   WUERCH   noted  he   reviewed   the  recommendations                                                             
considered  by the Commission  on the previous  day.  He  emphasized                                                            
that he is  concerned that one of  his proposed recommendations  did                                                            
not make the "short list,"  that being Recommendation 5 put forth by                                                            
the Department  of Administration which relates to  privatization of                                                            
the state  telephone  system.  He  pointed out  that an interagency                                                             
billing  process is  used for that  system whereby  departments  are                                                            
billed at the  rate of about 25 cents  per minute for long  distance                                                            
telephone  calls.   He  believes that  the  true cost  of  providing                                                            
government  telephone and data transmission  services have  not been                                                            
correctly  identified because  the process  is so amorphous  that no                                                            
one has a good  handle on what the real costs are.   He indicated if                                                            
the state  is able  to put  the system  up for  competitive bid,  it                                                            
should know what  the true costs are.  He noted that  with a rapidly                                                            
changing  technical   environment  and  deregulation   of  telephone                                                            
services  throughout the nation,  Alaska is  trailing the nation  in                                                            
privatizing  telephone  services.   He reported  that Anchorage  and                                                            
Fairbanks have cost-free  municipally owned telephone service and he                                                            
believes privatization  of the state  system is a move in  the right                                                            
direction.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   WUERCH  moved  to  adopt  Recommendation   5  of  the                                                            
Department  of Administration subcommittee's  report.  COMMISSIONER                                                             
FINK seconded the motion.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS noted that  he intended to offer a motion recommending                                                            
that the  State of  Alaska develop  an overall plan  in the  area of                                                            
business-oriented  technology  with the intent  of privatizing  that                                                            
technology and improving efficiency and services to the public.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  asked if this recommendation  is a duplication                                                            
of something  that has  already been  done since  the Department  of                                                            
Administration   has  issued  a  request   for  proposals   for  its                                                            
communications system.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-25, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  commented, "Mr. Adams' number one  recommendation                                                            
- if it does mean  to privatize that whole area, it  seems like it's                                                            
much more broad than yours.   I would like for it to cover all these                                                            
other things."   He said that it is  unclear to him whether  Senator                                                            
Adams' motion  recommends privatization  or recommends that  a study                                                            
be performed.   He asked if the recommendation  could be  amended to                                                            
include all other areas of technology for privatization.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH  said that is his intention as  he believes that                                                            
will provide  more incentive  for  the private sector  to invest  in                                                            
remote  areas   of  the   state,  especially   with  the  shift   of                                                            
communication  functions to  the Internet.   Currently, the  private                                                            
sector  only has a  small portion  of the market  consisting  of the                                                            
entertainment  portion and some telephone  service.  The  government                                                            
shelters  a  huge  communications  bill  from  the  private  sector.                                                            
Commissioner  Wuerch agreed with Commissioner  Fink that  the entire                                                            
spectrum should  be looked at, including  radio and emergency  panel                                                            
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH  addressed  the issue  of  whether  an RFP  has                                                            
already been issued  and noted that all proposals  could be refused.                                                            
 (Indisc. -  talking and paper shuffling).                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO  noted  that  he met  with  Commissioner  Poe,                                                            
Department  of Administration  (DOA), on this  item.  He also  noted                                                            
that Local  71 members who  work for the state  will be affected  by                                                            
the fact  that the RFP solicits  a private  entity to take  over the                                                            
state communications system.  To his understanding, the state is the                                                            
only  provider  that has  "line  of  sight" communications   between                                                            
Kodiak and  the mainland.   He informed the  commission that  "they"                                                            
are reviewing ways to make  effective use of the state system before                                                            
it  becomes  devalued   with  more  private  sector  communications                                                             
companies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  asked if there was  further discussion on  the motion                                                            
to adopt Commissioner Wuerch's Recommendation 5.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO objected  because he believes an RFP is already                                                            
being issued.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Therefore, Commissioner  Wuerch's Recommendation 5  was adopted with                                                            
one dissenting vote.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  asked if Commissioners  Notti, Allen, and  Harper had                                                            
any  recommendations  to place  before the  commission.   All  three                                                            
commissioners  indicated that  they did not  have anything  to bring                                                            
before the commission at this time.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  asked if Commissioner  Valesko had anything  to bring                                                            
before the commission.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO asked  if there would  be time to bring  items                                                            
before the commission at a later date.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD explained  that with the full commission's permission,                                                            
he intends  to  complete the  commission's  business at  the end  of                                                            
business today.   At that point, staff  will be instructed  to place                                                            
this information  in  a finalized  document to be  delivered  to the                                                            
commissioners  this Friday.   The final report  will be taken  up on                                                            
December  13, 1999  and, if  necessary, on  December  14, 1999.   He                                                            
specified  that during  the December  13 meeting,  everything  would                                                            
remain  before the  commission.   Co-Chair Ward  announced that  now                                                            
would be the appropriate  time to bring items before the commission.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VALESKO   moved  that   the  commission   adopt   his                                                            
Recommendation  2  which reads:   "Any  privatization  efforts  must                                                            
ensure that  there is a substantial  and guaranteed cost  savings to                                                            
the state on an immediate and long-term basis."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK  asked  whether  the  language  "substantial  and                                                            
guaranteed" is  necessary.  He agreed that any privatization  effort                                                            
must ensure cost savings.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO said  that he  would be willing  to amend  his                                                            
recommendation  to read:   "Any  privatization  efforts must  ensure                                                            
that there is a cost savings  to the state on an immediate and long-                                                            
term basis."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD asked  if there  was objection  to  the amendment  to                                                            
Recommendation  2.  There  being no objection  to the amendment,  it                                                            
was adopted.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The  motion to  adopt  Commissioner  Valesko's Recommendation  2  as                                                            
amended  was before  the  commission.   There  being  no  objection,                                                            
Recommendation 2 as amended was adopted.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY   stated  staff  cannot  develop  a  professional                                                             
document by Friday.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD commented  that the  commission  will have  follow-up                                                            
time.  He said  that he talked with  the staff who realize  that the                                                            
commission needs a draft by December 13, 1999.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  noted that he submitted  11 items to the commission.                                                             
He  then expressed  the  need  for some  portion  of the  report  to                                                            
provide   for    accountability    for   privatization    and   gave                                                            
Recommendation  11  as  an example.    That recommendation   states:                                                            
"It's imperative  that the state functions  that are privatized  are                                                            
viewed regularly  to ensure  that they're at  least as effective  as                                                            
state-provided  services."  He pointed  to the sex offender  program                                                            
and the numerous parks  around the state as examples of the need for                                                            
such a  recommendation.   He reiterated  that there  should be  some                                                            
accountability  included in the report in order to  show that it has                                                            
merit.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK moved his Recommendation  4 which recommends  the                                                            
legislature enact  a statute that no labor contracts  may be entered                                                            
into  which  place  limits on  privatization.    He  explained  that                                                            
numerous  subcommittee reports  indicate that  some labor  contracts                                                            
prohibit  some services from  being privatized.   Labor groups  will                                                            
always want  such a provision  in the contract.   Commissioner  Fink                                                            
thought that a  law should be passed to affect future  contracts and                                                            
the  renewal of  contracts.   The  law  should indicate  that  labor                                                            
contracts  should  not  contain  any  language   which  would  limit                                                            
privatization efforts.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded Commissioner Fink's motion.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  informed the commission that  the contracts he                                                            
is familiar with contain  language requiring the state to do a cost-                                                            
efficiency  study  to illustrate  that  the  work can  be  performed                                                            
cheaper  using contract  labor  versus  the state  work  force.   He                                                            
acknowledged  that the state  is burdened with  showing that  it can                                                            
provide the  work cheaper,  but he felt that  is a positive  aspect.                                                            
Commissioner  Valesko pointed  out that attempts  have been  made to                                                            
include language  in the contracts  to require the state  to pay the                                                            
same  wages  and  benefits  as  the  private   sector.  During  many                                                            
administrations, the state  has negotiated to exclude such language.                                                            
 Local 71's  current contract  includes language  that requires  the                                                            
state to pay the wages  for the work specified in the contract, plus                                                            
$2.55 in benefits.   Such language provides a base  for the worth of                                                            
the work.   Placing limits  on the right to  negotiate the  worth of                                                            
the work means  that the private sector  could pay minimum  wage for                                                            
work.  He stressed that  he does not want to be part of a commission                                                            
that  puts  forth a  recommendation,  such  as  Commissioner  Fink's                                                            
Recommendation  4,  that  would  lower  the standard  of  living  of                                                            
Alaskans.   Commissioner    Valesko   stated   his   opposition   to                                                            
Commissioner Fink's Recommendation 4.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY said  that  he does not  believe  anyone wants  to                                                            
lower the  standard of living  for anyone in  the state and  he does                                                            
not believe  Commissioner  Fink's  Recommendation 4  would do  that.                                                            
Co-Chair  Cowdery informed  the commission  that  when the  Knowles'                                                            
Administration  put the state printing  function out to competitive                                                             
bid, the labor  union sued the Administration.   The Administration                                                             
had to pay  for the bid and the cost  of labor's lost wages  because                                                            
that was a provision of  the contract.  Co-Chair Cowdery interpreted                                                            
Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation  4 as the notion that  the state                                                            
should not  negotiate away its right  to negotiate with the  private                                                            
sector.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   THOMAS  informed  the  commission   that  she  favors                                                            
Commissioner  Fink's  Recommendation   4.    She  pointed  out  that                                                            
discussing  privatization does  not necessarily  mean that  the work                                                            
will be awarded  to a nonunion entity.  Every union  employee should                                                            
have the opportunity to  get the job.  Perhaps, the job would merely                                                            
move  to another  union  representation.    In  the ideal  world  of                                                            
privatization,  some of these functions  could be moved to  areas of                                                            
the state  where there is  not much of an  economy.  She  questioned                                                            
why  vehicle registrations   have to  be  mailed to  Anchorage,  for                                                            
example.  Privatization  offers many  opportunities to provide  jobs                                                            
in other  parts of  the state  which is  why she  hates to see  such                                                            
limitations in labor contracts.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   WUERCH  spoke   in  favor   of  Commissioner   Fink's                                                            
Recommendation 4.  He pointed  out that the adoption of Commissioner                                                            
Valesko's Recommendation  2 placed a limit on privatization efforts.                                                            
 On the other  hand, Commissioner Fink's Recommendation  4 says that                                                            
there will be no limits.   He suggested amending Recommendation 4 by                                                            
replacing  the phrase "which  place limits  on privatization"   with                                                            
"which prohibits privatization."                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  felt the difficulty with the word  "prohibits" is                                                            
that  many people  would  argue  that something  does  not  actually                                                            
prohibit  privatization.   Commissioner Fink  said that he  does not                                                            
see any conflict  in his recommendation  and Commissioner  Valesko's                                                            
Recommendation  2.   The labor  contract  is separate  and does  not                                                            
affect the concept of privatization.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH announced that  he has been persuaded  that the                                                            
language in Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation 4 is adequate and he                                                            
supports the motion.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO  pointed out that the language  in Commissioner                                                            
Fink's  Recommendation  4  does  place  a  limit  on privatization.                                                             
Commissioner  Valesko's Recommendation  2, which specifies  that the                                                            
state may not  privatize work unless  a savings can be illustrated,                                                             
also places  a limit on privatization.   Labor and management  [with                                                            
Commissioner Fink's  Recommendation 4] would not be  able to discuss                                                            
that.  He explained,  "Under ... the NLRB rules and  regulations and                                                            
the federal  laws,  contracts that  are entered  into, consistently                                                             
across  this  nation  -  labor  and  management  have  entered  into                                                            
agreements  that restrict  or have some  application to outsourcing                                                             
work."  This is a level  playing field in which labor and management                                                            
can discuss  their concerns.   When  one specifies  that one  cannot                                                            
enter into  labor contracts which  address outsourcing, contracting                                                             
out,  and   privatization,  a  tremendous   amount  of  unrest   and                                                            
insecurity  is created  amongst employees.   He  explained that  the                                                            
employees   lose  job  security,   which  was  gained  through   the                                                            
negotiated language.   The public sector is left feeling  that their                                                            
jobs are  at risk  each time  the legislature  meets.  Commissioner                                                             
Valesko felt that production  would decrease.  He questioned why, if                                                            
these  protections  are included  in the  national  labor laws,  the                                                            
state would  not include such protections  in the state labor  laws.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK pointed out that  in private labor negotiations,                                                             
the management  side is limited in what it can give  because it must                                                            
make a  profit.  However,  during government  labor negotiations,  a                                                            
government manager can  agree to something and the taxpayer is stuck                                                            
 with  the bill.   Commissioner  Fink  acknowledged  that there  are                                                            
limits on outsourcing  in some nongovernment  agreements.   However,                                                            
it is done  within the realm of the  bottom line because  management                                                            
represents its  shareholders, who want to keep their  jobs.  That is                                                            
not the case in  government, which is why it should  not be allowed.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll  call vote, Commissioners  Fink, Harper, Notti,  Thomas,                                                            
Wuerch,  Ward  and  Cowdery  voted  in  favor  of  the  adoption  of                                                            
Commissioner Fink's Recommendation  4.  Commissioners Allen, Valesko                                                            
and  Adams  voted  against  the  adoption  of  Commissioner   Fink's                                                            
Recommendation  4.  Commissioner Brice was not present.   Therefore,                                                            
the motion passed 7 yeas, 3 nays.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK moved  that the committee adopt his Recommendation                                                            
5 which  states:   "Eliminate the  Alaska product  preferences,  the                                                            
recyclable  preference,  and  the  food products  preference."    He                                                            
explained that  the subcommittees that dealt with  those preferences                                                            
all recommended that they be removed.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded the motion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS  informed the  commission  that  he would  be  voting                                                            
against  Commissioner Fink's  Recommendation  5 because  all of  the                                                            
preference programs were established to help Alaska businesses.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK agreed with Senator  Adams' assessment  regarding                                                            
Alaska food products  but did not believe that argument  is true for                                                            
the recyclable  preference  which costs the  state approximately  10                                                            
percent more for paper products.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH  mentioned  that as  a  past president  of  the                                                            
Alaska  Chamber of  Commerce,  he struggled  to get  the Buy  Alaska                                                            
program established therefore  he is opposed to this recommendation.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Upon  a roll call  vote,  Commissioners  Fink and  Cowdery voted  in                                                            
favor of the  adoption of Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation  5 and                                                            
Commissioners   Harper, Notti, Thomas, Valesko, Wuerch,  Ward, Adams                                                            
and  Allen  voted  against  the  adoption  of  Commissioner   Fink's                                                            
Recommendation  5.  Commissioner Brice was not present.   The motion                                                            
to adopt Commissioner Fink's  Recommendation 5 failed with a vote of                                                            
2-8.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   FINK   moved   that    the   commission   adopt   his                                                            
Recommendation 6 which  reads:  "A process must be installed wherein                                                            
the  legislature  reviews  and  approves  any  court  settlement  or                                                            
dropping of an appeal by  the Administration when the subject matter                                                            
is a state policy issue."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded the motion.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSION FINK pointed  out that the Hammond Administration settled                                                            
in the Hootch  case, which cost the  state a lot of money.   He also                                                          
believes that  dropping the subsistence  appeal will cost  the state                                                            
money  as  well.   He  commented  that  this  occurs  at  the  local                                                            
government  level  as well.   Commissioner  Fink  acknowledged  that                                                            
this recommendation  will force discussion about what  constitutes a                                                            
policy issue.  He indicated  that such tactics, in effect, result in                                                            
a  law   being  passed   without  a  law   actually  being   passed.                                                            
Commissioner  Fink  clarified  that  he  was suggesting  that  if  a                                                            
lawsuit  is filed, the  chief administrator  of  any body could  not                                                            
settle   a  policy  issue   without  the   legislature's   approval.                                                            
Otherwise, the chief administrator  would have to continue an appeal                                                            
until legislative  approval  is achieved.   This  does not take  any                                                            
power from the courts.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS pointed out  that Commissioner Fink's Recommendation 6                                                            
is a policy question.   He believed it will require  a legal opinion                                                            
because  of the balance  of power  issue between  the executive  and                                                            
judicial branches.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO  informed  the  commission  that he  would  be                                                            
voting against  Commissioner Fink's Recommendation  6.  He noted his                                                            
limited knowledge in this  area but said he could foresee this issue                                                            
reaching into  labor agreements and everything in  state government.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS commented  that  although she  is basically  in                                                            
favor  of what  Commissioner  Fink is trying  to  accomplish, it  is                                                            
equivalent  to  the  legislature  laying  odds  as  to  whether  the                                                            
legislature will win or  lose.  She also expressed concern about the                                                            
wording  of Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation  6.   She  suggested                                                            
that  perhaps  the   words  "a  legal  settlement"   would  be  more                                                            
appropriate than "a court settlement."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  indicated that Commissioner Thomas'  language may                                                            
be  acceptable.   He  explained that  this  does not  frustrate  the                                                            
judicial  branch  from making  its  decisions,  but rather  it  will                                                            
frustrate  the  Administration's  decision  to  agree  to  something                                                            
before  it  goes  to the  highest  court  unless  the  agreement  is                                                            
approved by the  legislature.  Recommendation 6 would  also stop the                                                            
Administration  from ending  a case  on appeal.   Commissioner  Fink                                                            
pointed  out that  Governor Knowles  has  agreed not  to appeal  the                                                            
decision  that more  money has  to be  spent on  schools.   Governor                                                            
Knowles  only received  the opinion  of one judge  as opposed  to 60                                                            
legislators.  That should not be able to happen.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   NOTTI  agreed  with   Commissioner  Fink   that  some                                                            
decisions  have been incorrect,  as with  subsistence.  However,  he                                                            
felt that the set up of  a strong executive branch should be left as                                                            
such.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  WUERCH found the idea  appealing in many respects  but                                                            
expressed concern  that Recommendation 6 goes beyond  the charter of                                                            
the commission.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll  call vote, Commissioners  Ward, Cowdery and  Fink voted                                                            
in favor  of the adoption  of Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation  6                                                            
and Commissioners  Notti, Thomas, Valesko, Wuerch,  Adams, Allen and                                                            
Harper voted against it.   Commissioner Brice was not in attendance.                                                            
 Commissioner Fink's Recommendation 6 failed with a vote of 3-7.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   FINK   moved   that    the   commission   adopt   his                                                            
Recommendation  9 which states:  "Eliminate any government  money to                                                            
 public  radio or TV,  endowment for  the arts,  one percent  to the                                                            
arts."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY seconded  the motion.  "I'd like to just point this                                                            
one percent  for arts, in  addition to the  international airport  -                                                            
that's a little over a  million dollars that we have to spend out of                                                            
that  money out  there for  the arts."   Co-Chair  Cowdery spoke  in                                                            
favor of the motion.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER FINK  pointed out that way back when,  kings and queens                                                            
funded the  arts.   Although such  people do not  have that  kind of                                                            
money  now,   private  people  have   spent  money  in  this   area.                                                            
Commissioner Fink stressed  that some nonprofit foundations now have                                                            
close to  a trillion dollars  in assets.   Such foundations  have to                                                            
give out about five percent  a year.  He stated that these nonprofit                                                            
foundations  will  "take  up  the  slack" if  they  are  forced  to.                                                            
Although the arts are an  important part of society, the arts do not                                                            
have to be backed by government funds.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ADAMS objected  to Commissioner  Fink's  Recommendation  9,                                                            
specifically  the portion  speaking to public  radio.  He  explained                                                            
that  in Kotzebue,  for example,  public  radio provides  more  than                                                            
entertainment;  it also serves  as a safety  net and communications                                                             
link.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  FINK mentioned that  he supported the original  public                                                            
radio and TV program in  the legislature.  However, he believes that                                                            
today the private sector  will cover the entire state with radio and                                                            
television.  He  indicated that having a public broadcast  available                                                            
reduces the incentive for private enterprise to enter this area.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VALESKO expressed  opposition  to Commissioner  Fink's                                                            
Recommendation 9 because  he believes it is appropriate to mandate a                                                            
certain percentage of funds to go towards the arts.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  NOTTI commented that  he could agree with the  portion                                                            
of the recommendation  dealing with  the arts, but the remainder  is                                                            
tied to public safety issues.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll  call vote, Commissioners  Ward, Cowdery and  Fink voted                                                            
in favor  of the adoption  of Commissioner  Fink's Recommendation  9                                                            
and Commissioners  Notti, Thomas, Valesko, Wuerch,  Adams, Allen and                                                            
Harper   voted  against   the   adoption  of   Commissioner   Fink's                                                            
Recommendation  9.    Commissioner  Brice  was  not  in attendance.                                                             
Commissioner Fink's Recommendation 9 failed with a vote of 3-7.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   FINK   moved   that    the   commission   adopt   his                                                            
recommendation  to eliminate  any government  funding of power  cost                                                            
equalization.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[The motion was not seconded.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  pointed out  that  the commission  was  still  under                                                            
Commissioner Comments  and could accept suggestions  from commission                                                          
members.   The commission  will not return  to reconsiderations  and                                                            
amendments   until  the  commission   has  heard  all  commissioner                                                             
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  THOMAS  expressed  concern that  there  are some  good                                                            
recommendations  from the subcommittee  reports that no one  had the                                                            
opportunity  to take up.  She asked  that the fact that some  worthy                                                            
recommendations could not  be addressed be acknowledged in the final                                                            
report.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD  clarified  that all  subcommittee  reports  will  be                                                            
highlighted in the final report.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-25, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY  mentioned that  he  has already  had legislators                                                             
contact  him regarding  areas  that  have not  been  covered by  the                                                            
commission.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WARD asked  if  any commissioner  had  more  new items  to                                                            
discuss.  Co-Chair Ward  noted that the commission would address old                                                            
items, reconsiderations,  and  amendments at  the meeting  scheduled                                                            
on December  13, 1999.   He informed the  commission that the  staff                                                            
has been  instructed  to combine all  the information  into a  draft                                                            
form, which will be provided  to each commissioner before the end of                                                            
business  Friday.   The  close-out  process  will begin  during  the                                                            
December 13,  1999 meeting.  Co-Chair  Ward asked if there  were any                                                            
other comments.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VALESKO   stated   that  he   wanted   to  note   his                                                            
Recommendation  3 which states:   "Methods  be developed to  monitor                                                            
current  and future  privatization.  Cost savings  analysis must  be                                                            
performed  to determine  if  the state  can,  or has,  provided  the                                                            
service less  expensively."   He noted that  his recommendation   is                                                            
similar to Senator Adams' Recommendation 11.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD  announced that he will  be offering a recommendation                                                             
to move  the legislature.   He requested  that Commissioner  Valesko                                                            
submit  his recommendation  to Mr.  Pignalberi to  be placed  on the                                                            
agenda  for the  December 13,  1999 meeting.   He  also asked  other                                                            
commissioners to submit any recommendations to staff.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ADAMS  commented, "Sometimes we err in our  judgement and we                                                            
have done it  in a couple of areas."   He hoped commissioners  would                                                            
rescind some  of their motions  at the next  meeting.  He  indicated                                                            
the  commission  packet  should include  a  document  regarding  the                                                            
collections functions  of the Department of Law, which  he suggested                                                            
everyone  review because  there  may be  the need  to rescind  prior                                                            
action in this  area.  He said that the commission  made an error in                                                            
placing  ARRC  under  the  Executive  Budget  Act.    Senator  Adams                                                            
believed  the commission went  against the  judgement of the  Alaska                                                            
State  Chamber  and  its  resolution  99-15.    He  noted  that  the                                                            
Fairbanks  Chamber also had  a resolution which  he would bring  for                                                            
review.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further  comments, the  Commission on Privatization                                                             
and Delivery of Government Services adjourned at 11:43 a.m.                                                                     

Document Name Date/Time Subjects